Gee, it’s almost like when someone gets a significant other, life is no longer based around only your own personal goals, wants, needs, comfort and everything else.
Amazing faces in panels 2 and 5! Also it’s scenes like this that I wish I had forgotten to check in for a few weeks, so I could catch up and read all the pages at once. Too bad I check a few times a day, every day. It’s become routine whenever I turn on my computer…
I am starting to feel so frustrated with everyone here. The mom. Mow the boss. They need to tell them all to Foff. Does his boss actually get a say about what social ‘norms’ he may have broken while outside of work? Seem inappropriately controlling.
I mean, this goes beyond social norms though. Breaking taboo – even a taboo that to us makes no real sense – is a lot more significant. We don’t really have good examples because our near universal taboo have really solid reasons behind them (like, cannibalism.) There really doesn’t seem to be a solid reason why touch is so expressly forbidden beyond childhood, but maybe we’ll eventually find out *why* it’s a taboo, as opposed to just a social norm.
That having been said, even if touch were only viewed as some sort of perverse sexual thing as opposed to a full on taboo, it’s not exactly unreasonable of a boss to be upset that his employee was caught doing so in a public space at a work sponsored event. Hell, even as a friend, finding out one of my friends was caught having sex in a public space would probably elicit a similar response.
I’m still waiting for the bomb to drop that COVID-19 started the taboo against touch, and SOMEONE is showing the poorest use of prophetic visions EVER 😛 😛
I’ve gotten a sense that touching in this universe is more along the lines of public sex in terms of real-world analogous taboos. So imagine you walked in on your employee banging his girlfriend in a public (if unoccupied) tent at a high-profile function for your business. And said girlfriend is a junior member of the same business. (Miel doesn’t supervise her, but he’s definitely senior to her by a wide margin in the corporate hierarchy.) And said employee was one of your rising stars on whom you have personally staked your reputation. And the girlfriend’s parents were with you.
I’m not saying the boss is right to have this reaction because I don’t agree with this universe’s mores regarding touch… but it is completely understandable why he is reacting this way.
Sooo, yes and no about the boss. If you have multiple clients who can recognize you and know you, it can reflect poorly upon the company you’re working for. That’s just the harsh reality. I worked for a small company and was out at a mall doing some holiday shopping one year and someone rudely bumped into me. I just kind of shrugged it off and continued on my way. Shortly after, a client of mine came running over to say hi and commiserate about how rude some people can be during the holidays, etc. But what if I had turned to the stranger and had started to yell at them/cuss them out/etc? How would that have looked to my client? Our actions and reactions outside of work really can have (albeit interesting) consequences to our work life. Considering the norm is to not touch people, it would seemingly reflect poorly upon the company to hire a “pervert”, which is what an average person would think of that display of affection.
Anyway, I digress. (: Just some interesting things to consider.
Telling people to fok off, rarely does anything useful, if you care about anyone. That is the problem. Readers of this series seem to care about the people in the story, even people like ourselves that make bad choices and behave poorly at times. So, we want a good result, not an easy one.
My knee jerk response is dialectical, comparing people to opposite extremes by imaginging them as my child or as my wife (I don’t have either). What would I endure for my child? When would I tell my child they are not fulfilling my needs? What abuse could I be accepting that I shouldn’t be?
I supposed, even with seeing all these comments, I disagree. I would still tell them to butt-out. But, I suppose that is what I do in my actual life. I have never let my family dictate how I should live, or where, or in what manner – my mom would have liked me to live differently, but I did it my way anyhow. I know that most people are far more controlled by their peers, company of employment, and family than I am, so I see the constraints of your replies based on those social rules you may all adhere to – and I just don’t – they are just are not ones that I let control me. So I find myself SO VERY frustrated with these guys for letting people do that to them due to that.
I’ll just offer that only I can upset myself. If I tell people off and leave, I am giving them control over me. It’s always the other person that is wrong, in those scenarios, on both sides. Being tolerant doesn’t mean allowing oneself or others to be abused. The abuse isn’t what is tolerated.
And while not letting others dictate how you live is certainly understandable, would you really be surprised if you got caught doing something at a work function and your boss chewed you out for it? If you and another coworker were caught with your pants down in a public space during a work event, would you be surprised if you both got fired?
It might be worth mentioning that I don’t often live up to what I’m saying here. I’m not speaking with my asshole brother, for example. And, I don’t mean to be giving you grief (apologies to admin who’s read my spiel many times now).
I think people have to take care of themselves before they can care for others. For me, a tendency to accept abuse has meant I have to be tell people to go away in order to avoid a repeating pattern of the narcissist/empath thing. But my ideals are like what I say.
I wonder if this attitude is more about the planet, than about the greater society. This Monotropa’s human population used to be only scientists, making sure not to harm the dryads or the environment, and making sure humans aren’t harmed by the environment. It is only recently opening to more immigration. Bee and Flower may represent a wider pattern of the old culture of human scientists clashing with other human cultures.
I mean, Abeil’s parents are able to take a vacation, and they’re scientists. Why can’t Meil? Hell when do these workaholics find the time to make kids anyways? (Oh wait that’s answered, they make them to order, and robots and daycares do much of the work, so no one needs a full time career of home maker.)
Then again, I am reading Mindscape, so I might just be prone to seeing cultural conflict in the macro right now.
This does not bode well. I’m willing to give Acier the benefit of the doubt (maybe he’s angry about a scene getting made in what was basically a company event?) but… not looking good. They can’t catch a break, it seems!
I’m hoping this is it. Not so much a personal attack coming in, but rather a “DUDE this is like a PUBLIC EVENT with IMPORTANT PEOPLE! You have to do…that…SOMEWHERE PRIVATE. And with THAT WOMAN’S DAUGHTER!?!?! Do you have *any idea* how much paperwork I’m going to have to do now?!?!
Yeah. I’ve never liked Acier and I wouldn’t put “controlling” out of the possibility list yet. But, that being said, I hope it’s something like you said. I’ve been trying to think of a human equivalent in our world, and I think it might be on the border of like, BDSM and public sex. So in that context, it would be like if you walked in on someone flogging someone else naked, while at a company party. I’m really hoping it’s the “how could you do this HERE” and not “as my employee, how dare you do this [at all].”
I was wondering about the “lucky bamboo” on the desk. Apparently, 4 in Chinese (Mandarin?) sounds similar to “death”. So, the Feng Shui arrangements skip from 3 to 5. That’s probably not ominous.
I think it’s uncertain yet what tack the boss will take. But at the same time, I think it’s useful to remember the strength of the social norm against touch in this world as well as the context of the event, which is stil a *company* event and they were not in a fully “private” space (People have reason to enter in a supplies tent art any moment. And they may or may not have been slightly trespassing): I’d argue that it’s probably somewhere in the realm of having sex just inside the entrance to the supplies tent at a company picnic in our world. So I am sympathetic to the boss thinking Miel displayed poor judgement (and also probably being very stressed from having to deal with Amaryllis.
So I’m reserving judgment to see what the rest of the boss’s reaction is. (And, of course the tension surrounding the taboo is a plot propellent, so very interested in seeing where it goes. Going against strong social norms, much less wholesale change of social norms, is extremely difficult and likely to encounter a lot of pushback that takes everyone (on all sides) a lot of emotional energy to process. I really think Gina does a great job at handling the nuance of emotionally complex situations)
Amaryllis, I agree though, is extremely toxic. Her reaction to the situation and to Miel (and I’m sure to Abellie and the boss) are hostile and basically designed to cause everyone as much grief as possible so she can feel self-righteous and in control.
I get that they were at a public festival, in a supply tent, which is safe to assume would have people come in and out throughout the night…. Like Miel said, De Ja Vu, they were having a moment and forgot the risk they were taking…
But Acier geniuenly looks more suprised that upset, he’ll probably freak out a little on the whole touching thing, but I’m thinking he’s more in shock for Amy’s explosion more than whatever Miel was or wasn’t doing
It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that Amaryllis’ behavior in public is ALSO a social faux pas…just not a taboo the way touch is. This seems like a very…”polite”….society, where the outward appearance of calm collected nicety is highly valued and outbursts are…not.
Anyone who thinks THIS is unreasonable behavior for a boss, or feels a boss has no right to interfere for an employee’s personal life, has obviously never worked for a big company.
A cousin of mine got in trouble for “making out” (she swears they had only kissed) in public. Disneyland fired one of my friends because he BRIEFLY squeezed the hand of his girlfriend when she was at the park. I’ve known dozens of people who lost their jobs for public displays of affection that made it clear they were non-hetero. (Not on company time, not even in the same city as the company… this was years ago, but it was fairly common when simply being gay was taboo, so a good analogy of touching in this world.) A few people I know have been reprimanded or even lost their jobs after social media posts made their involvement in the BDSM community blatant. One was a manager-level person who openly wore BDSM garb at the Pride Parade, and was fired the following Monday. This happened 3 years ago.
This is 100% on par with my experience in the business world. A boss would absolutely react this way if I were to have a lover pants-down bent over my knee behind a tent at a company-sponsored function. I would definitely NOT have a job anymore. Reality of how society treats taboos sucks.
Why do I have the suspicion that boss man here is going to surprise us all? I say this because I think he’s more in shock that not only is his prized in employee in a relationship in general, much less a coworker, but it happens to be a rather risque one, going by their standards. His reaction is understandable, but I don’t think it’s going to be one of him being fired. I think he’ll force his hand and push the transfer on him as an “or else” tactic.
Meanwhile I;m dying to know how our little bumblebee is doing because…eeyikes that was quite the show her mother put on.
Gee, it’s almost like when someone gets a significant other, life is no longer based around only your own personal goals, wants, needs, comfort and everything else.
Amazing faces in panels 2 and 5! Also it’s scenes like this that I wish I had forgotten to check in for a few weeks, so I could catch up and read all the pages at once. Too bad I check a few times a day, every day. It’s become routine whenever I turn on my computer…
I am starting to feel so frustrated with everyone here. The mom. Mow the boss. They need to tell them all to Foff. Does his boss actually get a say about what social ‘norms’ he may have broken while outside of work? Seem inappropriately controlling.
I mean, this goes beyond social norms though. Breaking taboo – even a taboo that to us makes no real sense – is a lot more significant. We don’t really have good examples because our near universal taboo have really solid reasons behind them (like, cannibalism.) There really doesn’t seem to be a solid reason why touch is so expressly forbidden beyond childhood, but maybe we’ll eventually find out *why* it’s a taboo, as opposed to just a social norm.
That having been said, even if touch were only viewed as some sort of perverse sexual thing as opposed to a full on taboo, it’s not exactly unreasonable of a boss to be upset that his employee was caught doing so in a public space at a work sponsored event. Hell, even as a friend, finding out one of my friends was caught having sex in a public space would probably elicit a similar response.
I’m still waiting for the bomb to drop that COVID-19 started the taboo against touch, and SOMEONE is showing the poorest use of prophetic visions EVER 😛 😛
I’ve gotten a sense that touching in this universe is more along the lines of public sex in terms of real-world analogous taboos. So imagine you walked in on your employee banging his girlfriend in a public (if unoccupied) tent at a high-profile function for your business. And said girlfriend is a junior member of the same business. (Miel doesn’t supervise her, but he’s definitely senior to her by a wide margin in the corporate hierarchy.) And said employee was one of your rising stars on whom you have personally staked your reputation. And the girlfriend’s parents were with you.
I’m not saying the boss is right to have this reaction because I don’t agree with this universe’s mores regarding touch… but it is completely understandable why he is reacting this way.
Sooo, yes and no about the boss. If you have multiple clients who can recognize you and know you, it can reflect poorly upon the company you’re working for. That’s just the harsh reality. I worked for a small company and was out at a mall doing some holiday shopping one year and someone rudely bumped into me. I just kind of shrugged it off and continued on my way. Shortly after, a client of mine came running over to say hi and commiserate about how rude some people can be during the holidays, etc. But what if I had turned to the stranger and had started to yell at them/cuss them out/etc? How would that have looked to my client? Our actions and reactions outside of work really can have (albeit interesting) consequences to our work life. Considering the norm is to not touch people, it would seemingly reflect poorly upon the company to hire a “pervert”, which is what an average person would think of that display of affection.
Anyway, I digress. (: Just some interesting things to consider.
Telling people to fok off, rarely does anything useful, if you care about anyone. That is the problem. Readers of this series seem to care about the people in the story, even people like ourselves that make bad choices and behave poorly at times. So, we want a good result, not an easy one.
My knee jerk response is dialectical, comparing people to opposite extremes by imaginging them as my child or as my wife (I don’t have either). What would I endure for my child? When would I tell my child they are not fulfilling my needs? What abuse could I be accepting that I shouldn’t be?
Is it really outside work when it’s a company event?
I supposed, even with seeing all these comments, I disagree. I would still tell them to butt-out. But, I suppose that is what I do in my actual life. I have never let my family dictate how I should live, or where, or in what manner – my mom would have liked me to live differently, but I did it my way anyhow. I know that most people are far more controlled by their peers, company of employment, and family than I am, so I see the constraints of your replies based on those social rules you may all adhere to – and I just don’t – they are just are not ones that I let control me. So I find myself SO VERY frustrated with these guys for letting people do that to them due to that.
I’ll just offer that only I can upset myself. If I tell people off and leave, I am giving them control over me. It’s always the other person that is wrong, in those scenarios, on both sides. Being tolerant doesn’t mean allowing oneself or others to be abused. The abuse isn’t what is tolerated.
And while not letting others dictate how you live is certainly understandable, would you really be surprised if you got caught doing something at a work function and your boss chewed you out for it? If you and another coworker were caught with your pants down in a public space during a work event, would you be surprised if you both got fired?
It might be worth mentioning that I don’t often live up to what I’m saying here. I’m not speaking with my asshole brother, for example. And, I don’t mean to be giving you grief (apologies to admin who’s read my spiel many times now).
I think people have to take care of themselves before they can care for others. For me, a tendency to accept abuse has meant I have to be tell people to go away in order to avoid a repeating pattern of the narcissist/empath thing. But my ideals are like what I say.
I wonder if this attitude is more about the planet, than about the greater society. This Monotropa’s human population used to be only scientists, making sure not to harm the dryads or the environment, and making sure humans aren’t harmed by the environment. It is only recently opening to more immigration. Bee and Flower may represent a wider pattern of the old culture of human scientists clashing with other human cultures.
I mean, Abeil’s parents are able to take a vacation, and they’re scientists. Why can’t Meil? Hell when do these workaholics find the time to make kids anyways? (Oh wait that’s answered, they make them to order, and robots and daycares do much of the work, so no one needs a full time career of home maker.)
Then again, I am reading Mindscape, so I might just be prone to seeing cultural conflict in the macro right now.
This does not bode well. I’m willing to give Acier the benefit of the doubt (maybe he’s angry about a scene getting made in what was basically a company event?) but… not looking good. They can’t catch a break, it seems!
I’m hoping this is it. Not so much a personal attack coming in, but rather a “DUDE this is like a PUBLIC EVENT with IMPORTANT PEOPLE! You have to do…that…SOMEWHERE PRIVATE. And with THAT WOMAN’S DAUGHTER!?!?! Do you have *any idea* how much paperwork I’m going to have to do now?!?!
That makes me feel a lot better. Thank you! Even if it’s not what is happening
Yeah. I’ve never liked Acier and I wouldn’t put “controlling” out of the possibility list yet. But, that being said, I hope it’s something like you said. I’ve been trying to think of a human equivalent in our world, and I think it might be on the border of like, BDSM and public sex. So in that context, it would be like if you walked in on someone flogging someone else naked, while at a company party. I’m really hoping it’s the “how could you do this HERE” and not “as my employee, how dare you do this [at all].”
(But I doubt it.)
I was wondering about the “lucky bamboo” on the desk. Apparently, 4 in Chinese (Mandarin?) sounds similar to “death”. So, the Feng Shui arrangements skip from 3 to 5. That’s probably not ominous.
Where does his boss get off interfering with his personal life? What he does away from work is 100% none of that guys business!
I think it’s uncertain yet what tack the boss will take. But at the same time, I think it’s useful to remember the strength of the social norm against touch in this world as well as the context of the event, which is stil a *company* event and they were not in a fully “private” space (People have reason to enter in a supplies tent art any moment. And they may or may not have been slightly trespassing): I’d argue that it’s probably somewhere in the realm of having sex just inside the entrance to the supplies tent at a company picnic in our world. So I am sympathetic to the boss thinking Miel displayed poor judgement (and also probably being very stressed from having to deal with Amaryllis.
So I’m reserving judgment to see what the rest of the boss’s reaction is. (And, of course the tension surrounding the taboo is a plot propellent, so very interested in seeing where it goes. Going against strong social norms, much less wholesale change of social norms, is extremely difficult and likely to encounter a lot of pushback that takes everyone (on all sides) a lot of emotional energy to process. I really think Gina does a great job at handling the nuance of emotionally complex situations)
Amaryllis, I agree though, is extremely toxic. Her reaction to the situation and to Miel (and I’m sure to Abellie and the boss) are hostile and basically designed to cause everyone as much grief as possible so she can feel self-righteous and in control.
I get that they were at a public festival, in a supply tent, which is safe to assume would have people come in and out throughout the night…. Like Miel said, De Ja Vu, they were having a moment and forgot the risk they were taking…
But Acier geniuenly looks more suprised that upset, he’ll probably freak out a little on the whole touching thing, but I’m thinking he’s more in shock for Amy’s explosion more than whatever Miel was or wasn’t doing
It wouldn’t surprise me to find out that Amaryllis’ behavior in public is ALSO a social faux pas…just not a taboo the way touch is. This seems like a very…”polite”….society, where the outward appearance of calm collected nicety is highly valued and outbursts are…not.
Anyone who thinks THIS is unreasonable behavior for a boss, or feels a boss has no right to interfere for an employee’s personal life, has obviously never worked for a big company.
A cousin of mine got in trouble for “making out” (she swears they had only kissed) in public. Disneyland fired one of my friends because he BRIEFLY squeezed the hand of his girlfriend when she was at the park. I’ve known dozens of people who lost their jobs for public displays of affection that made it clear they were non-hetero. (Not on company time, not even in the same city as the company… this was years ago, but it was fairly common when simply being gay was taboo, so a good analogy of touching in this world.) A few people I know have been reprimanded or even lost their jobs after social media posts made their involvement in the BDSM community blatant. One was a manager-level person who openly wore BDSM garb at the Pride Parade, and was fired the following Monday. This happened 3 years ago.
This is 100% on par with my experience in the business world. A boss would absolutely react this way if I were to have a lover pants-down bent over my knee behind a tent at a company-sponsored function. I would definitely NOT have a job anymore. Reality of how society treats taboos sucks.
Why do I have the suspicion that boss man here is going to surprise us all? I say this because I think he’s more in shock that not only is his prized in employee in a relationship in general, much less a coworker, but it happens to be a rather risque one, going by their standards. His reaction is understandable, but I don’t think it’s going to be one of him being fired. I think he’ll force his hand and push the transfer on him as an “or else” tactic.
Meanwhile I;m dying to know how our little bumblebee is doing because…eeyikes that was quite the show her mother put on.