I think it depends on how you define “going badly.”
If you want Abeille to be able to salvage her relationship with her mother, it’s going badly. Amaryllis is refusing to take any responsibility for Abeille losing her job, and Abeille can see it and is done with that nonsense.
On the other hand, if all you want is for Abeille to stand up for herself and refuse to submit to her mother, then it’s going well enough at the moment.
I have high hopes for this conversation actually (I’m still a wreck whenever a new page is posted tho). The backgrounds in this scene are a mix of yellow (Abeille) and blue (Amaryllis). Look at the last panel, Abeille is surrounded by her mother’s coldness, but her resolve protects her and shines through. She is stronger than she was before, she can do this.
She’s getting flustered, insecure (nearing self hug) and letting mommy dearest talk all over her, while looking down on the ground and not maintaining eye contact.
I would rather her dad didn’t show up. The reason is that Abeille being able to stand up to her mother on her own would be a signifier to her that she is independent, that she has the power to say no to her mother on her own, and that she can validate her own choices and her own life.
Her father coming in to save the day would be an external source of validation which is great for immediate reassurance that she is doing the right thing but in years to come, that wouldn’t be the same sort of source of strength for her. If Abeille can resolve this on her own she’ll always be able to look back on and say “I can be confident in my own ability to make decisions, stand up for myself, and be *my own* protector when things are bad.”
… and by resolve I don’t mean that the situation has an abrupt sit-com ending. Just that by the end she can walk away with a feeling of resolution in her own head. I’ve told Mom what I really think. Mom has told me how she really sees me. I don’t agree. And now I can go on with my life on my terms.
I’d argue a family member firmly standing in your corner and telling another that they are wrong would actually be a much better source of strength for her over the years to come, especially if they were consistent about it and did so regularly and to the point of refusing to deal with the toxic individual.
Not sure where you’re getting this idea that Abeille needs to stand alone in finally standing up to her family but that’s a super unhealthy way looking at life. If you can get someone to stand with you it’s far better for emotional support, it’s far easier to take steps forward from there, far easier to process the eventual lack of change in the toxic individuals behavior and ultimately proves to have the greatest success rate when it comes to trying to influence a toxic family member into change, at least in confrontational means. Or at least remove them the cleanest from your life.
You spend enough decades fighting with a parent over many things, you get used to their style of arguing and learn how to both cope and counter-argue with them.
Not to support the mother here, but she had made a valid point here. Abielle and Miel did unintentionally practiced touching at the wrong time and place, Amaryllis barged in on them and screamed “bloody-mary” that caught the crowd’s attention. Mr. Acier even made that point. However, the couple weren’t trying to make a public spectacle; Amaryllis did caused it to go public, both at the party and having made the formal complaint to Eyebright’s HQ so she does share some of the blame here.
However, for Amaryllis to go as far to report the incident over even their bosses’ heads, even after getting the facts about her daughter’s relationship, is being too intrusive of her. She did it for what she thinks is protecting her “child” but instead for keeping control over Abielle’s adult life. Amaryllis isn’t liking the adult that Abielle is turning out to be and she keeps making it more obvious as Abielle fights back to be independent of her influence. Abielle needs to set up her boundaries with what their mother-daughter relationship is to be going forward as both adults, otherwise Amaryllis will keep forcing her preferences onto Abielle like her still being her “child”.
..Right? they could definitely have a little more impulse control around doing taboo stuff at public events in easily accessible spaces…
they shouldn’t be shamed for doing something that both of them consented to, but if you’re doing something in public that within this cultural context is super sexual, it isn’t great to involve nonconsenting bystanders who might wander in accidentally either?
it seems innocuous from the reader’s point of view because we’re from a culture where that sort of behavior is fairly normal, we know to expect it and know to avoid public places if we’re uncomfortable with it for some reason, but i can’t really blame the characters who didn’t sign up for it and had no reason to expect it for getting upset at seeing it either?
I can. Thinking something is gross is not a moral stance. Moral outrage has to be grounded in something or you accept that ‘you do butt sex which is gross’ is a valid reason for someone to kill me.
And it isn’t that taboo in this society, at on this planet with its emphasis on nurturing. I think most people there would still Hamlisch you if you were chocking.
i can be cool with seeing a sex act being performed in public if i happen to be at a BDSM club and not be cool with seeing the same thing at my local public library. is that “”””””moralistic””””””?
I would consider what they’re doing to be akin to doing a bdsm scene at a work function.
And frankly it is damn reasonable for a parent to freak the hell out of they think they’re seeing their child being abused – which is what consensual bdsm looks like out of context. We know amaryllis is a jerk – however this is pretty much what any kinkster with half a brain would *expect* to happen if they got the cuffs out with their mom and boss not far away.
It just flat out isn’t appropriate and anyone responsible knows this. There are socially appropriate ways to connect and affirm the bond without, y’know, getting your ass fired.
People seem to forget the whole premise is that we’re in a world where touching is taboo, and just go for the whole early 21st century “oh thats so sweet they just want to touch and it’s so unfair”.
So lets look at what is truly taboo in mainstream 2022 USA.
As in, socially frowned upon to the point of social isolation even if you do it in your own home if someone finds out.
Gay relationships. Nope. All good, legal marriage equality and all. Transgender relationships are legal and accepted too, even if a few backwards religionists have issues, on the whole there is discrimination but not whole of society shunning. So not taboo, but pushing towards it a bit.
Drug use. Alcohol normalized. Cannabis largely decriminalized if not legalized. Cocaine use normalised with references to party drugs and nose beers.
Some heavier drugs regularly related to violent crime such as ICE and heroin are certainly illegal and frowned upon, but lets face it America’s long had a strange war on drugs thing going on. But legality and social taboos are two different things as America proved during prohibition. Robert Downey Jnr showed that acceptance of drug rehab means that drugs are barely taboo at any stage.
BDSM stuff? Well, we’ve had 50 shades of gray as a hit novel but even so it’s also a mixed bag. Consenting people doing butt stuff is normalized, even at relatively young ages. “Choke me Daddy” is a freaking meme.
So you need to start talking about some pretty niche BDSM stuff. A bit beyond the handcuffs. Maybe something to do with urination or scat.
Then of course, we have to remember this is AT A WORK PARTY.
Workmates kissing at a 2022 work party would raise more than just eyebrows, maybe a HR discussion.
Drunk at a work party could be please explain to HR.
Drug use would be show cause at least if not certain dismissal, certainly anything harder than coke would be instant dismissal and criminal charges too.
Yet, by the standards of this society, their actions are THAT MUCH WORSE than these things. They’re considered some outrageous BDSM kink.
I’m still struggling with the topic. I think everyone thinks Amaryllis is being mean and Abeille makes lots of mistakes as the brave girl that she is.
There are natural consequences to actions, vs. punishment. If you are scared, a natural consequence can be that something you didn’t want to happen, happens. It doesn’t mean that you are “guilty” for having fear.
What matters is how the unfortunate event can be addressed. If another person suffers a loss from the event, approximate repayment of damages and other things of that sort are implied and still unfortunate and can be complicated.
Punishment (sadism) judges people by laws that someone invents. You are a “bad person” because you became upset when you were bound to behave lawfully.
Society of laws punishes. Not that, is an anti-pattern. Similarly, superficially, a set of negations of laws, but mutually negotiated, by social convention, with caring being central.
There’s (I think) pathological behavior. You have a tendency to be afraid and bad events tend to occur unintentionally because of natural consequences. What does a society do about that phenomenon? If it’s your parent, a thing to do about that can be to separate from them. An irresponsible society throws up it’s hands and declares people garbage and finds itself with streets lined with people living in tents. Punish away, and more tents will appear.
I’m curious if this comic was set in the past and the commotion was about two men kissing or a white woman and a black man kissing, if you would still say it was their fault for not having “impulse control”.
I dont know if Amaryllis knows this, but Abeille’s actions in the cafeteria were a lot more guilty of all this. She *did* make a scene and it’s not impossible that her mom wouldn’t have been able to get her fired if she hadn’t reacted like that.
I doubt amaryllis knows so her point is especially moot, but eeeehhhh Abeille did not come out of this smelling like roses….
… because a video of her mother making a scene circulated and then everyone at work was guessing what she did base on her mother’s reactions. No one knew what they were doing (this is not about rightness but what resulted in this specific outcome). Acier asked Amaryllis to calm down and do her fit-out of view. People can snap and contribute to making a problem worse, but it’s a reaction vs an instigation – in this case directly due to her mother’s involvement resulting in her becoming a workplace joke. Her parents forcing themselves into her new life, and then expecting to capitalize her time and not let her escape, then track her down via an employer, then act shocked at what consenting adults do holds way more weight of responsibility in creating this outcome. It probably would have been a very different scenario if they had been caught, made their case, been given an outcome based on that rather than what Amaryllis did. There was precedence for inappropriate work activities (singer guy) and for bosses investigating/listening. Whether or not Abeille was “right” by society in her actions at a work function isn’t the point. It’s how it was handled – screaming upon discovery, yelling at Abeille through a door, threatening Miel, going over bosses heads, and threatening their jobs after she didn’t get her way. Even for this era, the fact every person has run interference for Abeille upon meeting Amaryllis is a giant context clue of how society sees the relationship. Her mom was going to get her fired. The fact Abielle popped off after all of that stress makes her responsible for her actions, but people do toxic things around toxic people and the source of that is Amaryllis.
Going back to a parallel with some serious BDSM level as an equivalent social taboo to their touching.
Would you feel you needed to intervene if you child was committing BDSM in the workplace in a public place?
Would you try and isolate them from the person they were doing said sex acts with?
These seem pretty normal responses.
Don’t get me wrong, Amaryllis is a manipulative piece of work who chose to escalate the issue so she can have control over her daughter and try and make it impossible for her to live there with Miel.
But if the whole premise of the story line is that touching is taboo, then these reactions seem perfectly reasonable actions for a parent to take to protect their child from a pervert. Even if you knew that your child was the pervert then it would be just as reasonable to take those actions to prevvent them grooming someone else as a victim, too.
I don’t think the cafeteria scene is actually involved in any manner with the firing: it did appear to me like Acier had got this dealt with without escalation to the level where Amaryllis made her stink. Mind you, it could, and it may definitely be on Abeille’s mind right now. But I don’t think Amaryllis knew of it or used it as leverage (though if she had known, she certainly would have milked it for what it was worth).
For the first time, I wish that the comment section had the ability to put a little emoji reaction! I don’t have anything more to add to your well-thought through response but I agree with it so much that I just have to acknowledge it.
The point might be evading me. Fighting against an oppression, when you won’t achieve anything in the process, is futile. Our Abeille, fights and wins, against bullies, and accepts the consequences.
Separately, Eyebright and her mom, are like hurricanes, where speaking truth to them doesn’t achieve much, except closure.
Kissing in a tent or semi-discreetly asking people if they want to do touching, in a mostly not public place is very Abeille-like. Yeah she gets in trouble. But, it’s society that is stupid, not Abeille.
The problem with this is that Abeille’s mother is clearly in a superior position when it comes to influence, power and what amounts for money in this story. The only way to fight someone like that is to leave their sphere of influence. Despite what stories would have you believe confronting the toxic individual is only good for one thing. Closure on that relationship.
A good parent would have dealt with these concerns in private.
A good parent wouldn’t have made a scene and publicly humiliated their child.
A good parent would have made efforts to help their child avoid serious consequences, and most certainly wouldn’t have gone out of her way to ensure their child suffered as much as possible.
So sorry but as someone who was abused by both parents, I can definitely say without a doubt that every mom is *not* heroic. And this woman? She is a villain.
I don’t mean to suggest that Amaryllis should have her actions validated. For me, the story hits right on the pain point. So, I’m telling about myself, poorly.
I certainly need to be more sensitive about the appropriateness of what I say. It doesn’t matter what I mean if saying something is going to hurt people.
I want to add, gaslighting your children to win arguments is not something good parents do habitually. Good parents may get emotional and make bad choices sometimes (they’re people after all) but they take responsibility, apologize, and try to make things right once they’ve calmed down.
Her mom doesn’t just want to control Abeille, she wants to prove to both of them that she’s right and justified in every situation. The idea that she might be wrong or have done something wrong doesn’t even enter her mind, so she’s trying to cast things in any possible way that makes her right, no matter how much she needs to lie to her daughter to get there.
“I think he likes me.
Likes you? Please, Rapunzel, that’s demented
This is why you never should have left
Dear, this whole romance that you’ve invented
Just proves you’re too naive to be here
Why would he like you? Come on now, really!
Look at you, you think that he’s impressed?
Don’t be a dummy
Come with mummy
Mother…. Knows…. Best”
Come on Abeille, you’re wasting your time. Just walk away….
Like so many others here, I am on the edge of my seat!
I think the hopes that Abeille’s father will step up are misplaced though. Never have we seen a flashback of him stepping-up. Abeille is on her own, as she has been before.
I really hate her mom. Like, REALLY hate her. Sure, they did something stupid where they shouldn’t have – who hasn’t? And it isn’t like they were on the street. They WERE in tent in what they thought was a private area. But okay, maybe they should have left it to the bedroom. But it wasn’t illegal – just socially unaccepted – and nobody deserves to lose their job for that. Mom is using to this to try and emotionally blackmail and guilt trip her child into submission – like many mom’s do. Please let Abeille tell her to F-off and never return her calls nor see her again – at least not until Mom comes around.
While it’s true that Abeille and Miel technically were in a public place, Amaryllis is her mother and not her coworker. The majority of the incident could, and probably should, have been settled as a private matter. If it for example had actually been a coworker who discovered them, then their actions getting them fired could have been far more understandable and justified, but Amaryllis reasons were mainly born out of malice and vindictiveness. She just wanted to hurt her daughter (and Miel) so that she could regain control over Abeille and her life again.
I’m honestly scared that this is going to escalate into physical violence.
If nothing else works for Amaryllis to keep her daughter “in check”, what do you think will be the next course of action? We’ve already seen how contact can be used for affection, but unfortunately, it can also be used for pain. Not helping is the Dad hasn’t come back yet and isolation can make people like Amaryllis more comfortable with what they’re doing…
Even if Amaryllis never goes as far as to restrain or hit Abeille, just placing her hand on Abeille’s shoulder could be enough to make her uncomfortable/used to manipulate her; should her daughter show discomfort, Ammy can likely use that against Abeille as well. “You don’t want to hug me because you know in your heart of hearts, it’s wrong.”
Part of me wishes that Abeille will just throw up her hands, to some degree act like a “child” and just say “you know what mom? I’m done! Get off this planet, but I’m not leaving and nothing you do, say, or try to do to me will make me leave! I’m an adult and you can’t control me anymore!” and then I remember I have a parent like Amaryllis and even though I haven’t spoken to my dad in years I know that if he did this I would be right back there, like a real child, feeling worthless and unable to stand up for myself because that’s what they do.
Parents like this break their children down over years and years of psychological abuse and trauma and it can be SO hard to break free from them. What Amaryllis is doing is gaslighting, as many have noted, but she is also causing trauma-induced responses that cause Abeille to feel like she is not worth standing up for herself.
I hope she succeeds where others have failed and gets to stand up for herself and leave here, leave her, and not look back. She deserves it. Right now this comic hits home and I am rooting for Abeille to succeed and have the life of her dreams.
God damn, when you said that she’s using trauma-induced responses meant to cause Abeille to feel like she’s not worth standing up for herself.. I think you helped me put together something there. My mother would do exactly this whenever I’d try to confront her, and it made it impossible for me to communicate my needs with her, though I couldn’t articulate *why* the way she reacted shut me down. You just articulated what was going on there perfectly. Ty!
1. I am glad I helped you unintentionally, I hope it makes your world better. 2. I started learning psychology to figure out my own mess with my dad, and I am currently in the last legs of getting my doctorate in Psychology for Gender Diversity so when I see stuff like this I thankfully know names for things or at least what something presents as and why. This is a form of emotional abuse that is sadly common amongst some parents, usually those with narcissists or similar mental impairments and starts early. For some, it is a way they can control their kids, and a means they control their spouses. I feel bad for Abeille’s dad.
That’s some gaslighting if I ever saw some. This is the kind of stuff my abusive parents used to do to me and I dearly hope Abeille is able to get away from this woman because that was the only thing (that and a threat of a restraining order) that made my abusers stop.
As a childhood abuse survivor, I see so many parallels between Abeille and myself. Even her body language speaks to me. The only way I got away from my abusive, controlling, gaslighting mother was leaving home, going no-contact, then threatening a restraining order (because she kept trying to meddle in my life).
Amaryllis is checking off her Narcissist checklist today. Gaslight the daughter. check.
Abeille needs to look back up and stare her mother down! Tell that woman in no uncertain terms that there will be no going back! and then make it stick by going to the authorities on planet and getting a no contact order!
On the face of it Abeille’s mother makes decent points, that were it delivered by say Miel’s parents, would be worth considering. The best manipulations and lies, of course, are always the truth, and when it serves the manipulator’s purpose to appear reasonable, they will.
However it’s been shown again and again that Abeille’s mother is manipulative and controlling and gaslighting. Her concerns are false, they do not take Abeille’s wishes or needs into account, and all of it is to control/correct her daughter. The way Abeille blames herself for her sister’s death is probably brought about by Mom. I would bet Mom figured Abeille was so hopeless at handling herself and life that the length of time she’s been gone without crawling home for help is exactly what prompted the visit – the abuser is terrified the abusee is going to leave, and they’ve tripled down on the threats and control and manipulation to prove Abeille cannot escape, no matter how “competent” she thinks she is or how far away she goes, she’s always going to screw things up.
It’s horrible and manipulative and it really makes me want to hug Abeille. Abeille’s mother is not speaking truth. The truth is the company was going to sweep the incident under the rug, but Abeille’s mother made such a huge stink complaining to the company that, combined with the vid, they did what they felt was necessary. Whether or not Abeille and Miel should have been making out at a company event (they should not have been, probably) has nothing to do with Abeille’s mother being a manipulative controlling abusive parent.
I notice a bunch of the comments have been comparing the touching incident in the tent to doing BDSM at work. I think you may have forgotten the context of the touching. They weren’t making out or getting steamy. Abeille and Miel were talking about the job offer Miel had received for the first time and they were both emotional about it. It was a mutually comforting hug. For a moment. In an unoccupied tent. Where they didn’t expect someone to walk in on them right at that moment. So yeah, taboo in this society, but not sexual in nature and blown completely out of proportion due to Amaryllis’s reaction.
Exactly!! This is a sign of comfort from childhood, akin to sucking a thumb in my mind. Obviously weird for an adult to do, but not sexual in nature or worth of firing!
Yeah everyone keeps making that comparison, but Gina’s introduced enough characters who touch for a variety of reasons (comfort, familial affection, etc.) that touching on its own clearly *isn’t* always sexual. If anything, at worst, it’s getting caught making out in a spare room during an after-work office party. Not GREAT, absolutely embarrassing, but probably not a fireable offense so long as everyone’s consenting and you don’t make a habit of it.
Yeah, early in the story Abeille discovers for herself that it’s not just touch that is missing, when she tries the “touch club”.
Olive is comfortable with there being touching in her family, but it’s connection that she finds fulfilling (I’m interpreting the words): https://lovenotfound.com/comic/ch16-p34/ She engages in an outdated and unsanitary practice (cooking) for the connection that comes with it, just like Aster, Tulip, Abeille and Miel.
Social norms explain some of how Amaryllis and Acier reacted to Abeille and Miel, I guess. That’s useful to note. I don’t think it means that Abeille and Miel should avoid pushing what is socially acceptable, though.
Aster promotes touching as something vital. Abeille and Miel, are promoting open affection, and are ok with people shaming them about it, consistently.
I’m not sure that having sex in a tent in a public place is analogous to what they were doing. The motivations are different, maybe. To me, connection being the taboo is the same in the society I’m part of today. Sex represented in public is ok. Connection is not acceptable in public.
Abeille eating cake, was pretty sexy, but it’s cute and sweet and sad all at the same time. Miel sauntering into the tent, like he’s expecting something sweet from his sweetheart, in a tongue in cheek manner, is cute. The shocking part is that they are caring, near the public, and aren’t ashamed, as opposed to sex near the public for a thrill. They should continue to promote connection and expect people to be upset by it.
Amaryllis sucks. Obviously. But Abeille isn’t caving to her yet, which is progress over some of their earlier discussions. I know how these conversations go and I know how hard it is not to be swayed. Abeille is sure of herself and confident in her view of the situation finally. She’s not going to take any more of her mother’s abuse. You do it girl! I believe in you!
Well, the role of a parent in this society is not really a biological one. If family cells are still being maintained, it’s probably not because every maturing human being deserves having a personal backstabber. This just isn’t working anymore, at least not for Abeille, and has not for a long time. I doubt that this is a completely unique circumstance, so this society should have ways to deal with it. Aster’s principal job description appears to be helping people for which things fail to work out, so obviously that is something that happens.
Amarylis needs to be recorded or overheard and all her lies exposed for what they are.
She is such a deliciously drawn boo-hiss villain, and she is so terrifyingly true-to-life
I think Abeille and Miel were caught touching in the tent, but I’m not sure: https://lovenotfound.com/comic/ch18-p47/ They’ve touched in front of Abeille’s parents since then.
The words in panel 4 make my eye twitch in irritation: “likes to make a scene”. Abeille seems uninhibited, I don’t think she’s trying to get attention. That is such a typical accusation of people who try to get attention. Amaryllis tries to get attention, I think. And it dismisses admirable traits of her daughter.
What it is that bothers Amaryllis so much is interesting to me. Speculating: If Amaryllis has “had to” do the “hard things”, “has to” be mean, to win admiration and yet her daughter does what interests her, and is happy, I can imagine feeling jealous about that.
This is going badly.
I don’t think it’s going badly. But it’s hard for me to tell. What I think of as tenacious Abeille, is that she is not afraid to show her feelings.
I think it depends on how you define “going badly.”
If you want Abeille to be able to salvage her relationship with her mother, it’s going badly. Amaryllis is refusing to take any responsibility for Abeille losing her job, and Abeille can see it and is done with that nonsense.
On the other hand, if all you want is for Abeille to stand up for herself and refuse to submit to her mother, then it’s going well enough at the moment.
I have high hopes for this conversation actually (I’m still a wreck whenever a new page is posted tho). The backgrounds in this scene are a mix of yellow (Abeille) and blue (Amaryllis). Look at the last panel, Abeille is surrounded by her mother’s coldness, but her resolve protects her and shines through. She is stronger than she was before, she can do this.
She’s getting flustered, insecure (nearing self hug) and letting mommy dearest talk all over her, while looking down on the ground and not maintaining eye contact.
This is not going well.
Their argument has only just started. It’s not going well so far, but there’s plenty of time for an actual blow up.
I hope and pray that Abeille can shut her down.. or that her dad will show up and help…
Her dad can’t even help himself.
I would rather her dad didn’t show up. The reason is that Abeille being able to stand up to her mother on her own would be a signifier to her that she is independent, that she has the power to say no to her mother on her own, and that she can validate her own choices and her own life.
Her father coming in to save the day would be an external source of validation which is great for immediate reassurance that she is doing the right thing but in years to come, that wouldn’t be the same sort of source of strength for her. If Abeille can resolve this on her own she’ll always be able to look back on and say “I can be confident in my own ability to make decisions, stand up for myself, and be *my own* protector when things are bad.”
… and by resolve I don’t mean that the situation has an abrupt sit-com ending. Just that by the end she can walk away with a feeling of resolution in her own head. I’ve told Mom what I really think. Mom has told me how she really sees me. I don’t agree. And now I can go on with my life on my terms.
I’d argue a family member firmly standing in your corner and telling another that they are wrong would actually be a much better source of strength for her over the years to come, especially if they were consistent about it and did so regularly and to the point of refusing to deal with the toxic individual.
Not sure where you’re getting this idea that Abeille needs to stand alone in finally standing up to her family but that’s a super unhealthy way looking at life. If you can get someone to stand with you it’s far better for emotional support, it’s far easier to take steps forward from there, far easier to process the eventual lack of change in the toxic individuals behavior and ultimately proves to have the greatest success rate when it comes to trying to influence a toxic family member into change, at least in confrontational means. Or at least remove them the cleanest from your life.
Never have I wanted to slap a fictional character so badly.
Her, and Professor Umbridge. Something about figures of authority who act all sweet while gaslighting and mentally torturing you.
Good to see Abielle has built up some resistance to gaslighting.
You spend enough decades fighting with a parent over many things, you get used to their style of arguing and learn how to both cope and counter-argue with them.
I’m on the edge of my seat with this exchange. I’ve literally been checking this page several times a day every day ?
If you have an RSS reader you can be notified.
Pages as they are published: https://lovenotfound.com/feed/
Comments as they are vetted: https://lovenotfound.com/comments/feed/
Feedly is an app for iphone. “News reader” and “aggrogator” are what these apps are called, also.
Oh I know, I just do this anyway ? but thank you!
Not to support the mother here, but she had made a valid point here. Abielle and Miel did unintentionally practiced touching at the wrong time and place, Amaryllis barged in on them and screamed “bloody-mary” that caught the crowd’s attention. Mr. Acier even made that point. However, the couple weren’t trying to make a public spectacle; Amaryllis did caused it to go public, both at the party and having made the formal complaint to Eyebright’s HQ so she does share some of the blame here.
However, for Amaryllis to go as far to report the incident over even their bosses’ heads, even after getting the facts about her daughter’s relationship, is being too intrusive of her. She did it for what she thinks is protecting her “child” but instead for keeping control over Abielle’s adult life. Amaryllis isn’t liking the adult that Abielle is turning out to be and she keeps making it more obvious as Abielle fights back to be independent of her influence. Abielle needs to set up her boundaries with what their mother-daughter relationship is to be going forward as both adults, otherwise Amaryllis will keep forcing her preferences onto Abielle like her still being her “child”.
..Right? they could definitely have a little more impulse control around doing taboo stuff at public events in easily accessible spaces…
they shouldn’t be shamed for doing something that both of them consented to, but if you’re doing something in public that within this cultural context is super sexual, it isn’t great to involve nonconsenting bystanders who might wander in accidentally either?
it seems innocuous from the reader’s point of view because we’re from a culture where that sort of behavior is fairly normal, we know to expect it and know to avoid public places if we’re uncomfortable with it for some reason, but i can’t really blame the characters who didn’t sign up for it and had no reason to expect it for getting upset at seeing it either?
I can. Thinking something is gross is not a moral stance. Moral outrage has to be grounded in something or you accept that ‘you do butt sex which is gross’ is a valid reason for someone to kill me.
And it isn’t that taboo in this society, at on this planet with its emphasis on nurturing. I think most people there would still Hamlisch you if you were chocking.
i can be cool with seeing a sex act being performed in public if i happen to be at a BDSM club and not be cool with seeing the same thing at my local public library. is that “”””””moralistic””””””?
I would consider what they’re doing to be akin to doing a bdsm scene at a work function.
And frankly it is damn reasonable for a parent to freak the hell out of they think they’re seeing their child being abused – which is what consensual bdsm looks like out of context. We know amaryllis is a jerk – however this is pretty much what any kinkster with half a brain would *expect* to happen if they got the cuffs out with their mom and boss not far away.
It just flat out isn’t appropriate and anyone responsible knows this. There are socially appropriate ways to connect and affirm the bond without, y’know, getting your ass fired.
Agree Z.
People seem to forget the whole premise is that we’re in a world where touching is taboo, and just go for the whole early 21st century “oh thats so sweet they just want to touch and it’s so unfair”.
So lets look at what is truly taboo in mainstream 2022 USA.
As in, socially frowned upon to the point of social isolation even if you do it in your own home if someone finds out.
Gay relationships. Nope. All good, legal marriage equality and all. Transgender relationships are legal and accepted too, even if a few backwards religionists have issues, on the whole there is discrimination but not whole of society shunning. So not taboo, but pushing towards it a bit.
Drug use. Alcohol normalized. Cannabis largely decriminalized if not legalized. Cocaine use normalised with references to party drugs and nose beers.
Some heavier drugs regularly related to violent crime such as ICE and heroin are certainly illegal and frowned upon, but lets face it America’s long had a strange war on drugs thing going on. But legality and social taboos are two different things as America proved during prohibition. Robert Downey Jnr showed that acceptance of drug rehab means that drugs are barely taboo at any stage.
BDSM stuff? Well, we’ve had 50 shades of gray as a hit novel but even so it’s also a mixed bag. Consenting people doing butt stuff is normalized, even at relatively young ages. “Choke me Daddy” is a freaking meme.
So you need to start talking about some pretty niche BDSM stuff. A bit beyond the handcuffs. Maybe something to do with urination or scat.
Then of course, we have to remember this is AT A WORK PARTY.
Workmates kissing at a 2022 work party would raise more than just eyebrows, maybe a HR discussion.
Drunk at a work party could be please explain to HR.
Drug use would be show cause at least if not certain dismissal, certainly anything harder than coke would be instant dismissal and criminal charges too.
Yet, by the standards of this society, their actions are THAT MUCH WORSE than these things. They’re considered some outrageous BDSM kink.
How were they ever supposed to keep their jobs?
I’m still struggling with the topic. I think everyone thinks Amaryllis is being mean and Abeille makes lots of mistakes as the brave girl that she is.
There are natural consequences to actions, vs. punishment. If you are scared, a natural consequence can be that something you didn’t want to happen, happens. It doesn’t mean that you are “guilty” for having fear.
What matters is how the unfortunate event can be addressed. If another person suffers a loss from the event, approximate repayment of damages and other things of that sort are implied and still unfortunate and can be complicated.
Punishment (sadism) judges people by laws that someone invents. You are a “bad person” because you became upset when you were bound to behave lawfully.
Society of laws punishes. Not that, is an anti-pattern. Similarly, superficially, a set of negations of laws, but mutually negotiated, by social convention, with caring being central.
There’s (I think) pathological behavior. You have a tendency to be afraid and bad events tend to occur unintentionally because of natural consequences. What does a society do about that phenomenon? If it’s your parent, a thing to do about that can be to separate from them. An irresponsible society throws up it’s hands and declares people garbage and finds itself with streets lined with people living in tents. Punish away, and more tents will appear.
I’m curious if this comic was set in the past and the commotion was about two men kissing or a white woman and a black man kissing, if you would still say it was their fault for not having “impulse control”.
Exactly this.
I dont know if Amaryllis knows this, but Abeille’s actions in the cafeteria were a lot more guilty of all this. She *did* make a scene and it’s not impossible that her mom wouldn’t have been able to get her fired if she hadn’t reacted like that.
I doubt amaryllis knows so her point is especially moot, but eeeehhhh Abeille did not come out of this smelling like roses….
… because a video of her mother making a scene circulated and then everyone at work was guessing what she did base on her mother’s reactions. No one knew what they were doing (this is not about rightness but what resulted in this specific outcome). Acier asked Amaryllis to calm down and do her fit-out of view. People can snap and contribute to making a problem worse, but it’s a reaction vs an instigation – in this case directly due to her mother’s involvement resulting in her becoming a workplace joke. Her parents forcing themselves into her new life, and then expecting to capitalize her time and not let her escape, then track her down via an employer, then act shocked at what consenting adults do holds way more weight of responsibility in creating this outcome. It probably would have been a very different scenario if they had been caught, made their case, been given an outcome based on that rather than what Amaryllis did. There was precedence for inappropriate work activities (singer guy) and for bosses investigating/listening. Whether or not Abeille was “right” by society in her actions at a work function isn’t the point. It’s how it was handled – screaming upon discovery, yelling at Abeille through a door, threatening Miel, going over bosses heads, and threatening their jobs after she didn’t get her way. Even for this era, the fact every person has run interference for Abeille upon meeting Amaryllis is a giant context clue of how society sees the relationship. Her mom was going to get her fired. The fact Abielle popped off after all of that stress makes her responsible for her actions, but people do toxic things around toxic people and the source of that is Amaryllis.
Going back to a parallel with some serious BDSM level as an equivalent social taboo to their touching.
Would you feel you needed to intervene if you child was committing BDSM in the workplace in a public place?
Would you try and isolate them from the person they were doing said sex acts with?
These seem pretty normal responses.
Don’t get me wrong, Amaryllis is a manipulative piece of work who chose to escalate the issue so she can have control over her daughter and try and make it impossible for her to live there with Miel.
But if the whole premise of the story line is that touching is taboo, then these reactions seem perfectly reasonable actions for a parent to take to protect their child from a pervert. Even if you knew that your child was the pervert then it would be just as reasonable to take those actions to prevvent them grooming someone else as a victim, too.
I don’t think the cafeteria scene is actually involved in any manner with the firing: it did appear to me like Acier had got this dealt with without escalation to the level where Amaryllis made her stink. Mind you, it could, and it may definitely be on Abeille’s mind right now. But I don’t think Amaryllis knew of it or used it as leverage (though if she had known, she certainly would have milked it for what it was worth).
it’s much easier to manipulate someone with a twisted truth than a bald-faced lie.
For the first time, I wish that the comment section had the ability to put a little emoji reaction! I don’t have anything more to add to your well-thought through response but I agree with it so much that I just have to acknowledge it.
The point might be evading me. Fighting against an oppression, when you won’t achieve anything in the process, is futile. Our Abeille, fights and wins, against bullies, and accepts the consequences.
Separately, Eyebright and her mom, are like hurricanes, where speaking truth to them doesn’t achieve much, except closure.
Kissing in a tent or semi-discreetly asking people if they want to do touching, in a mostly not public place is very Abeille-like. Yeah she gets in trouble. But, it’s society that is stupid, not Abeille.
The problem with this is that Abeille’s mother is clearly in a superior position when it comes to influence, power and what amounts for money in this story. The only way to fight someone like that is to leave their sphere of influence. Despite what stories would have you believe confronting the toxic individual is only good for one thing. Closure on that relationship.
A good parent would have dealt with these concerns in private.
A good parent wouldn’t have made a scene and publicly humiliated their child.
A good parent would have made efforts to help their child avoid serious consequences, and most certainly wouldn’t have gone out of her way to ensure their child suffered as much as possible.
You, Amaryllis, are NOT a good parent.
I just hope your husband proves he can be.
i quibble about the wording. Every mom is heroic, by default. She is a good parent. Bad parenting is what Abeille’s parents seem to be doing.
So sorry but as someone who was abused by both parents, I can definitely say without a doubt that every mom is *not* heroic. And this woman? She is a villain.
I don’t mean to suggest that Amaryllis should have her actions validated. For me, the story hits right on the pain point. So, I’m telling about myself, poorly.
Yeah hon, hate to break it to you, but saying “every mom is heroic by default” is a huge slap in the face to every child of an abusive mother.
I certainly need to be more sensitive about the appropriateness of what I say. It doesn’t matter what I mean if saying something is going to hurt people.
I want to add, gaslighting your children to win arguments is not something good parents do habitually. Good parents may get emotional and make bad choices sometimes (they’re people after all) but they take responsibility, apologize, and try to make things right once they’ve calmed down.
Her mom doesn’t just want to control Abeille, she wants to prove to both of them that she’s right and justified in every situation. The idea that she might be wrong or have done something wrong doesn’t even enter her mind, so she’s trying to cast things in any possible way that makes her right, no matter how much she needs to lie to her daughter to get there.
I have to ask… are restraining orders a thing in this universe? Cause Abielle might want to look into getting one against Amaryllis…
“I think he likes me.
Likes you? Please, Rapunzel, that’s demented
This is why you never should have left
Dear, this whole romance that you’ve invented
Just proves you’re too naive to be here
Why would he like you? Come on now, really!
Look at you, you think that he’s impressed?
Don’t be a dummy
Come with mummy
Mother…. Knows…. Best”
Come on Abeille, you’re wasting your time. Just walk away….
Keep going, Abeille!!
Like so many others here, I am on the edge of my seat!
I think the hopes that Abeille’s father will step up are misplaced though. Never have we seen a flashback of him stepping-up. Abeille is on her own, as she has been before.
I really hate her mom. Like, REALLY hate her. Sure, they did something stupid where they shouldn’t have – who hasn’t? And it isn’t like they were on the street. They WERE in tent in what they thought was a private area. But okay, maybe they should have left it to the bedroom. But it wasn’t illegal – just socially unaccepted – and nobody deserves to lose their job for that. Mom is using to this to try and emotionally blackmail and guilt trip her child into submission – like many mom’s do. Please let Abeille tell her to F-off and never return her calls nor see her again – at least not until Mom comes around.
lmao waiting for her to pull out the “my boss literally said it was your fault”
Amaryllis, on the other hand, reacted like a shark smelling blood in the water.
While it’s true that Abeille and Miel technically were in a public place, Amaryllis is her mother and not her coworker. The majority of the incident could, and probably should, have been settled as a private matter. If it for example had actually been a coworker who discovered them, then their actions getting them fired could have been far more understandable and justified, but Amaryllis reasons were mainly born out of malice and vindictiveness. She just wanted to hurt her daughter (and Miel) so that she could regain control over Abeille and her life again.
This gaslighting b****. Congrats on making such a realistically detestable character lol.
+1. I haven’t spotted any fairytale villains in the story, so far.
I’m honestly scared that this is going to escalate into physical violence.
If nothing else works for Amaryllis to keep her daughter “in check”, what do you think will be the next course of action? We’ve already seen how contact can be used for affection, but unfortunately, it can also be used for pain. Not helping is the Dad hasn’t come back yet and isolation can make people like Amaryllis more comfortable with what they’re doing…
Even if Amaryllis never goes as far as to restrain or hit Abeille, just placing her hand on Abeille’s shoulder could be enough to make her uncomfortable/used to manipulate her; should her daughter show discomfort, Ammy can likely use that against Abeille as well. “You don’t want to hug me because you know in your heart of hearts, it’s wrong.”
Part of me wishes that Abeille will just throw up her hands, to some degree act like a “child” and just say “you know what mom? I’m done! Get off this planet, but I’m not leaving and nothing you do, say, or try to do to me will make me leave! I’m an adult and you can’t control me anymore!” and then I remember I have a parent like Amaryllis and even though I haven’t spoken to my dad in years I know that if he did this I would be right back there, like a real child, feeling worthless and unable to stand up for myself because that’s what they do.
Parents like this break their children down over years and years of psychological abuse and trauma and it can be SO hard to break free from them. What Amaryllis is doing is gaslighting, as many have noted, but she is also causing trauma-induced responses that cause Abeille to feel like she is not worth standing up for herself.
I hope she succeeds where others have failed and gets to stand up for herself and leave here, leave her, and not look back. She deserves it. Right now this comic hits home and I am rooting for Abeille to succeed and have the life of her dreams.
God damn, when you said that she’s using trauma-induced responses meant to cause Abeille to feel like she’s not worth standing up for herself.. I think you helped me put together something there. My mother would do exactly this whenever I’d try to confront her, and it made it impossible for me to communicate my needs with her, though I couldn’t articulate *why* the way she reacted shut me down. You just articulated what was going on there perfectly. Ty!
1. I am glad I helped you unintentionally, I hope it makes your world better. 2. I started learning psychology to figure out my own mess with my dad, and I am currently in the last legs of getting my doctorate in Psychology for Gender Diversity so when I see stuff like this I thankfully know names for things or at least what something presents as and why. This is a form of emotional abuse that is sadly common amongst some parents, usually those with narcissists or similar mental impairments and starts early. For some, it is a way they can control their kids, and a means they control their spouses. I feel bad for Abeille’s dad.
That’s some gaslighting if I ever saw some. This is the kind of stuff my abusive parents used to do to me and I dearly hope Abeille is able to get away from this woman because that was the only thing (that and a threat of a restraining order) that made my abusers stop.
As a childhood abuse survivor, I see so many parallels between Abeille and myself. Even her body language speaks to me. The only way I got away from my abusive, controlling, gaslighting mother was leaving home, going no-contact, then threatening a restraining order (because she kept trying to meddle in my life).
She seriously needs to introduce her mother to the beauty of physical touch. Maybe across the face and a couple times in the gut.
Amaryllis is checking off her Narcissist checklist today. Gaslight the daughter. check.
Abeille needs to look back up and stare her mother down! Tell that woman in no uncertain terms that there will be no going back! and then make it stick by going to the authorities on planet and getting a no contact order!
On the face of it Abeille’s mother makes decent points, that were it delivered by say Miel’s parents, would be worth considering. The best manipulations and lies, of course, are always the truth, and when it serves the manipulator’s purpose to appear reasonable, they will.
However it’s been shown again and again that Abeille’s mother is manipulative and controlling and gaslighting. Her concerns are false, they do not take Abeille’s wishes or needs into account, and all of it is to control/correct her daughter. The way Abeille blames herself for her sister’s death is probably brought about by Mom. I would bet Mom figured Abeille was so hopeless at handling herself and life that the length of time she’s been gone without crawling home for help is exactly what prompted the visit – the abuser is terrified the abusee is going to leave, and they’ve tripled down on the threats and control and manipulation to prove Abeille cannot escape, no matter how “competent” she thinks she is or how far away she goes, she’s always going to screw things up.
It’s horrible and manipulative and it really makes me want to hug Abeille. Abeille’s mother is not speaking truth. The truth is the company was going to sweep the incident under the rug, but Abeille’s mother made such a huge stink complaining to the company that, combined with the vid, they did what they felt was necessary. Whether or not Abeille and Miel should have been making out at a company event (they should not have been, probably) has nothing to do with Abeille’s mother being a manipulative controlling abusive parent.
I notice a bunch of the comments have been comparing the touching incident in the tent to doing BDSM at work. I think you may have forgotten the context of the touching. They weren’t making out or getting steamy. Abeille and Miel were talking about the job offer Miel had received for the first time and they were both emotional about it. It was a mutually comforting hug. For a moment. In an unoccupied tent. Where they didn’t expect someone to walk in on them right at that moment. So yeah, taboo in this society, but not sexual in nature and blown completely out of proportion due to Amaryllis’s reaction.
Exactly!! This is a sign of comfort from childhood, akin to sucking a thumb in my mind. Obviously weird for an adult to do, but not sexual in nature or worth of firing!
Yeah everyone keeps making that comparison, but Gina’s introduced enough characters who touch for a variety of reasons (comfort, familial affection, etc.) that touching on its own clearly *isn’t* always sexual. If anything, at worst, it’s getting caught making out in a spare room during an after-work office party. Not GREAT, absolutely embarrassing, but probably not a fireable offense so long as everyone’s consenting and you don’t make a habit of it.
Yeah, early in the story Abeille discovers for herself that it’s not just touch that is missing, when she tries the “touch club”.
Olive is comfortable with there being touching in her family, but it’s connection that she finds fulfilling (I’m interpreting the words): https://lovenotfound.com/comic/ch16-p34/ She engages in an outdated and unsanitary practice (cooking) for the connection that comes with it, just like Aster, Tulip, Abeille and Miel.
Social norms explain some of how Amaryllis and Acier reacted to Abeille and Miel, I guess. That’s useful to note. I don’t think it means that Abeille and Miel should avoid pushing what is socially acceptable, though.
Aster promotes touching as something vital. Abeille and Miel, are promoting open affection, and are ok with people shaming them about it, consistently.
I’m not sure that having sex in a tent in a public place is analogous to what they were doing. The motivations are different, maybe. To me, connection being the taboo is the same in the society I’m part of today. Sex represented in public is ok. Connection is not acceptable in public.
Abeille eating cake, was pretty sexy, but it’s cute and sweet and sad all at the same time. Miel sauntering into the tent, like he’s expecting something sweet from his sweetheart, in a tongue in cheek manner, is cute. The shocking part is that they are caring, near the public, and aren’t ashamed, as opposed to sex near the public for a thrill. They should continue to promote connection and expect people to be upset by it.
Amaryllis sucks. Obviously. But Abeille isn’t caving to her yet, which is progress over some of their earlier discussions. I know how these conversations go and I know how hard it is not to be swayed. Abeille is sure of herself and confident in her view of the situation finally. She’s not going to take any more of her mother’s abuse. You do it girl! I believe in you!
Well, the role of a parent in this society is not really a biological one. If family cells are still being maintained, it’s probably not because every maturing human being deserves having a personal backstabber. This just isn’t working anymore, at least not for Abeille, and has not for a long time. I doubt that this is a completely unique circumstance, so this society should have ways to deal with it. Aster’s principal job description appears to be helping people for which things fail to work out, so obviously that is something that happens.
Amarylis needs to be recorded or overheard and all her lies exposed for what they are.
She is such a deliciously drawn boo-hiss villain, and she is so terrifyingly true-to-life
I think Abeille and Miel were caught touching in the tent, but I’m not sure: https://lovenotfound.com/comic/ch18-p47/ They’ve touched in front of Abeille’s parents since then.
The words in panel 4 make my eye twitch in irritation: “likes to make a scene”. Abeille seems uninhibited, I don’t think she’s trying to get attention. That is such a typical accusation of people who try to get attention. Amaryllis tries to get attention, I think. And it dismisses admirable traits of her daughter.
What it is that bothers Amaryllis so much is interesting to me. Speculating: If Amaryllis has “had to” do the “hard things”, “has to” be mean, to win admiration and yet her daughter does what interests her, and is happy, I can imagine feeling jealous about that.